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	<title>Contrarian Stock Market Investing News - Featuring Bargain Stocks &#187; David A. Rosenberg</title>
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		<title>The Elusive Bottom</title>
		<link>http://www.contrarianprofits.com/articles/the-elusive-bottom/4689</link>
		<comments>http://www.contrarianprofits.com/articles/the-elusive-bottom/4689#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>David A. Rosenberg</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Politics & Economics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alan Greenspan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bull market]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Crude Oil Prices]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[David A. Rosenberg]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Federal Reserve]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[US recession]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.contrarianprofits.com/articles/the-elusive-bottom/4689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>In this weekend&#8217;s Thoughts from the Frontlines, I quoted from part of a very thoughtful, right-on-target analysis by David A. Rosenberg entitled &#8220;The Elusive Bottom.&#8221; Over the weekend, I decided that you should read the whole piece, as Rosenberg makes some very solid points about how the markets and the economy may play out over the next few years.</p>
<p>He has a non-consensus viewpoint, but that is what I like for Outside the Box. In fact, I think this is one of the more thought-provoking pieces I have used in OTB for some time.</p>
<p>Rosenberg is the North American Economist for Merrill Lynch. They were gracious to give me permission to send this letter out on such a short notice, and I&#8230;</p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this weekend&#8217;s Thoughts from the Frontlines, I quoted from part of a very thoughtful, right-on-target analysis by David A. Rosenberg entitled &#8220;The Elusive Bottom.&#8221; Over the weekend, I decided that you should read the whole piece, as Rosenberg makes some very solid points about how the markets and the economy may play out over the next few years.<span id="more-4689"></span></p>
<p>He has a non-consensus viewpoint, but that is what I like for Outside the Box. In fact, I think this is one of the more thought-provoking pieces I have used in OTB for some time.</p>
<p>Rosenberg is the North American Economist for Merrill Lynch. They were gracious to give me permission to send this letter out on such a short notice, and I believe you will well served to take the time to think through his analysis. And rather than try and give you a quick summary, let&#8217;s just jump right in.</p>
<p>John Mauldin, Editor<br />
Outside the Box</p>
<hr />
<h2>The Elusive Bottom</h2>
<p>Conference Call Notes<br />
14 August 2008<br />
David A. Rosenberg</p>
<h3>We aren&#8217;t past the halfway point of this recession</h3>
<p>My sense is that we probably aren&#8217;t even past the halfway point yet of this recession, the credit losses or the house price deflation. Looking at whether equities may have bottomed or not on an intermediate basis, maybe the recent action to the negative side was an important inflection. In terms of what I do, which is trying to tie the macro into the markets, I have a very tough time believing that we have reached anything close to a fundamental low, either in the S&amp;P 500 or in the long-bond yield, for that matter.</p>
<h3>300-point rallies in the Dow happen in bear markets</h3>
<p>We&#8217;re in a very confusing atmosphere. People didn&#8217;t really know what to make of a 300-point rally in the Dow the other day, but my main message was that 300point rallies from the Dow don&#8217;t happen in bull markets. In fact, they never happened in the bull market from October &#8216;02 to October &#8216;07, but it has happened 6 times in this bear market and happened 12 times in the last bear market. You don&#8217;t get moves like that in bull markets. As Rich Bernstein has said time and again, &#8220;This is the hallmark of a recession and a hallmark of a bear market.&#8221;</p>
<h3>How can there be recession with GDP still positive?</h3>
<p>We are at a crossroad in the economy. The 2Q GDP numbers recently came in at plus 1.9%. The details of the number left a little to be desired, but it was still a positive number. Turn on CNBC, and everybody says, &#8220;How can there possibly be a recession with GDP positive?&#8221;</p>
<h3>Employment has been down seven months in a row</h3>
<p>The very next day we got nonfarm payrolls. It prints down 51,000 and frankly, it doesn&#8217;t matter whether it was below or above Wall Street expectations. The bottom line is that employment is down seven months in a row. In 60 years of sifting through the data here, that&#8217;s never happened before without the economy being in a classic recession.</p>
<h3>GDP is useful but it has its limitations</h3>
<p>I think the point that has to be made as an economist talking to a group of portfolio managers or FAs or investors, it is important to convey to clients that there is a lot of noise out there. GDP is useful, but it has its limitations. First, GDP is going to get revised. We thought we had a plus 0.6 in the fourth quarter; all of a sudden, it&#8217;s minus 0.2. Twenty percent of GDP is government. So, you really can&#8217;t fully concentrate on GDP when a fifth of it is state, local and federal government, unless you&#8217;re trading defense stocks.</p>
<h3>You&#8217;ll miss a lot of action waiting for GDP to go negative</h3>
<p>More to the point, if you&#8217;re waiting as an investor for GDP to actually turn negative, you&#8217;re going to miss a lot of action along the way. I think the best example is to just go back to Japan. They had a real estate bubble that turned bust and they had their own credit contraction back in the early 1990s. Guess what; Japan didn&#8217;t post its first back-to-back contraction of real GDP until the second half of 1993. By the time the back-to-back negative that people seem to be waiting for happened, the Nikkei had already plunged 50%, the 10-year JGB yield rallied 300 basis points, and the Bank of Japan had cut the overnight rate 500 basis points, which said a thing or two about the efficacy of using the traditional monetary policy response of cutting interest rates into a credit contraction (as we&#8217;re now finding out here in the US).</p>
<h3>Dating the recession is a very scientific process</h3>
<p>The point is we can&#8217;t make the assumption that we&#8217;ve avoided a recessionary condition in the economy, just because we have so far managed to avoid back-toback quarters of negative GDP. I&#8217;m just telling you as the economist that it is basically irrelevant. The only body that officially makes the call on the broad contours &#8211; when the recession started, when it ends, when the expansion starts, when it ends &#8211; is the National Bureau of Economic Research, the NBER. It&#8217;s a very scientific process. It&#8217;s not a gut check or a judgment call.</p>
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